Beit Ad-Nai Yisrael

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Sean,
Thanks so much for your insight. You correctly mention there are people on the internet pointing fingers at individuals by name, which you say is forbidden, and then you proceed to publicly rebuke and shame those who are doing it. Do you see something wrong here?

BTW, it is not forbidden to publicly rebuke or shame someone in Jewish law. It is far more nuanced and complicated than just that. Claiming such a thing makes for a handy club to wield at people though. You might want to consider if you're wielding that club at victims, however.

"You shall certainly rebuke your neighbor, and don't bear sin because of him."

Furthermore, when you "deacons" unlawfully decided to cancel the beit din before a judgement on Troy Courcamp was delivered, you forfeited any right you may have had to claim foul play. You cannot rebuke victims for their public warnings about Troy while simultaneously and unlawfully cancelling a beit din, their only legitimate representation....just cause ya wanted to. You have eliminating the voice given to these victims by the Torah, and now you condemn negative reviews/warnings on the internet, their only remaining voice. Your hypocrisy is stunning.

"You shall certainly rebuke your neighbor, and don't bear sin because of him."

So, let's recap.....the victims have been silenced, there is no leadership accountability.....hmmm, perhaps those who have claimed BAY is cultish have at least some point.

To answer your question "who is the cult leader?....Troy Courcamp, Troy Courcamp is your leader. I challenge you to arouse his ire by stepping out of line. The "line" being defined here as anything he says it is.

Your claim that BAY has no elders NOW, and that Troy is NO LONGER an elder, and therefore all of these myriad claims of Troy being a meany head are therefore untrue, is just simply illogical.

You also claim that we who post warnings about Troy's hatred are "refusing to forgive". That's an interesting admission. In order to forgive, mustn't there first exist wrong-doing? (this is where you say yes). If there was wrong-doing, where is Troy's repentance and requests for forgiveness which scripturally should come first? Once again, you have a logic problem.

Those of us who post these things about this man do so as a warning to others because we never received the same warning, not because we hate Troy or want "retribution" as you level at us...publicly.

Lastly, you say "Those who don't make peace with their brothers and sisters who have wronged them assume the sin of the original brother/sister who wronged them". WHAT? Do you hear yourself?

Is it really possible that after years of controversy, and negative reviews upon negative reviews, that there is no reason to believe them? Really? We're all just making this junk up, huh? Really?

The wise among you will look to your own homes, and those looking for a congregation in this area will do well to look elsewhere. How embarrassing.


Update,
Sean has edited his original post that this post was based on. Interesting how easily the evidence is swept under the rug.
Sean's shotgun accusation that everyone with a grief is "embarrassing others" is itself lashon harah, and a strategy to silence others.
You did not allow the beit din to deliver it's verdict, and justice was not yours to subvert, therefore it has not been delivered.

Still....still NONE of you address the many grievances brought. Rather, you defend defend defend.

Your out of context use of schulchan aruch proves your intent. Do we as victims really take his sin when he has not sought forgiveness or even repented....really Sean? Really? Even when its impossible to make peace with him? Really?

You ask..."What would you do if you were the Judge?" I am not the Judge...and neither is the board of deacons (you). You fired the Judges....remember?

Keep your prayers man. Your self-righteousness is nauseating.

Ad hominems? Please. Check yourself. (mic drop)

"Bob,"

This will be my last response to you.

It is obvious that nothing short of destroying the Elder in question completely and publicly, and destroying BAY will satisfy your need for retribution and vengeance.

You make various accusations that are simply not true... including assigning motivations to people, assuming things not in evidence, and indulging in ad hominem attacks.

You are filled with anger and rage. And because of that anger you are blind to the sin you are partaking in.

There is nothing I can do to make you see the road you are taking... so I will not continue to engage you. I have attempted to explain the Board of Deacon's positions and reasons for the path we have chosen... and you chose to ignore the parts you can't refute or assign nefarious motivations to other aspects of it. It is clear that nothing that anyone could say or do will calm the rage you have for BAY and the Elder in question. I pity you.

May Hashem bring light to your eyes and peace to your life. You need it desperately.

Sean Holden

When I was looking for a congregation for friend moving to Colo. Springs, I came across Beit Ad-nai Yisrael. After reading the posts here, I think perhaps it would benefit all the posters, all the elders of the congregation as well as anyone who is member to read and contemplate the following:

Proverbs 6:16-19

16 There are six things ADONAI hates, seven which he detests:

17 a haughty look, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood,

18 a heart that plots wicked schemes, feet swift in running to do evil,

19 a false witness who lies with every breath, and him who sows strife among brothers.

Having been a member for several years, I feel like every family has it's ups and downs. People have different beliefs when it comes what a church must and must not be. When they do not find it here, they move on. There have been differences between people and BAY is going through changes. It should be up to you whether this synagogue can meet your needs and views. We are not a cult because I have not given up all of my money or property to BAY, my identity is intact, and I have no idol of a leader in my home. Please visit us and check it out for yourselves.

Anyone seeking to check out this congregation there are a few things you need to about it. It borders on being a cult. It is elder led with no leader. I know this because I attended for many years.

• Absolute authoritarianism without accountability.

• No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.

• There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.

• Former members have the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.

• Followers feel they can never be good enough;.

• The group/leader is always right.

• Extreme possessiveness regarding resulting in the exclusion of almost every practical consideration.

• Identity of the group and its existence become increasingly blurred and increasingly fused--as that person's involvement with the group/leader continues and deepens.

• Whenever the group/leader is criticized or questioned it is characterized as persecution;.

• Activity centered around the group/leader agenda, which seems to supersede any personal goals or individual interests.

• Former followers are considered negative or evil and bad influences. They cannot be trusted and personal contact is avoided.

• Uses coerce its members into submission.

• A hidden agenda that becomes known to a group member only after invested.

• Manipulative system of rewards and punishments. Totalitarian structure of permission and non-permission.

• Blind obedience to directives. Abusive, domineering top-dog leadership.

• Suppression of dissent, doubt, critical thinking, sincere questions, discussion or independent judgment.

Something else to think about. When leadership tells someone that they will have them arrested for trespassing and requesting them to leave just for disagreeing with them would you want to be apart of that? Wolves in sheep's clothing.

I too have witnessed the abuse, manipulation and control as described by other reviewers. Although I did not keep my family at BAY for much longer than a year, it does not take long before one begins to see that there is a sense of control and manipulation.
I have personally witnessed the elder scream at his own father in a room with a handful of other people during a leadership meeting, while everybody timidly put their head down in fear (including me to my own shame).
After hearing many past stories from other believers around the city who formerly attended Beit Adonai Yisrael about how the elder will simply not be questioned, nor will he be rebuked by anybody for the manner in which he treats people, I decided to take my family and quietly leave without attempting to correct the situation, having been convinced that the elder would not accept my rebuke.
A quick mind and an articulate tongue do not make a Godly leader, a soft and caring heart does.
If you are new to the understanding of Torah, and are no longer interested in vain religion, this is not the Synagogue for you. Those who are truly seeking the will of the Father, inevitably leave Beit Adonai .
The small numbers of people who attend regularly attest to the fact that the heart finds trouble there, and moves on. Those who are truly seeking the Elohim of Israel, and are being called to a life of true Torah obedience, eventually outgrow the religion that one finds there.
I ask all who have painful experiences with this synagogue to be brave enough to warn other new believers searching for the Truth in a local synagogue so that they will know to steer clear of this synagogue. It is a truly painful experience to have the beauty of the Torah revealed to you by the Father, only to have that joy quenched by a man who demands that you follow his form of religion. Tell them of your experiences, if you are sure your heart is in the right place to do so, and you are doing it to warn your brother behind you, and not to exact revenge for your pain. Use your real name. If other leadership had been willing to do so in the past, perhaps I could have steered my family (and myself) away from the pain that we endured while we were weak and vulnerable spiritually.
To those of you from other congregations, who mean well by posting positive reviews and refutations of “specter”, please know that you do not see what happens behind closed doors, as even the longtime members don’t usually see what happens to those of us deemed “unfit” (a selective others who do not fit his concept of “Judaism”). It is indeed entirely possible for someone to change their countenance upon your arrival to visit. If you truly desire to know the truth, you will consider whether or not these claims could possibly be true, and why there are so many men, including the leaders and members of other congregations in THIS city, who would attest to the validity of these claims against the elder. How can you truly know, not being members?
It is time for the men of God to assess correctly, and not assume that just because a man is in leadership, that he should be given a pass without investigation. If you are sure that you are correct in your positive assessment, then I call for beit din. All who have experienced this cold and heartless treatment from the elder should be given say in front of the local body of. But you, giving him a pass without truly knowing him well enough, are giving preferential treatment because of position, which is forbidden.
Again, I call on all those who have experienced this treatment, to stand and proclaim the need for investigation among the body.
Blessings,
Brad
Other reviews – Do a Google search for “Beit Adonai Yisrael Colorado springs reviews” and read the other reviews, and make sure this “Party Boat Synagogue” is the right place for you and your family.

Jay,
Does a righteous man need to ask so many people to defend him online? Does a righteous man typically have so many people who claim such horrible things about him? Have you sir, searched for the truth regarding this man by calling the many people around the Springs area that have spoken out against him to hear what they have to say? For example Jimmy, and the congregational Leader in Pueblo, the former members of Beit Adonai Yisrael (BAY) such as Ron and Dreama? Ron and Dreama's account is heartbreaking, and if you have not asked them to share it with you after reading this I can only assume it's because you don't care to know. I reassert that it is entirely possible for a man like Troy Courcamp to strategically change his persona around different groups of people to suit his own puposes of self advancement. As for your accusing me of sinning by violating scripture by not approaching him, I have a question for you sir - should I have done such a thing after hearing numerous, lenghty and heartbreaking accounts of people who had attempted exactly that but where told, for example, that they were Disgusting Human Beings by this man? I dont think so. This situation is far past individuals approaching him, and far past groups of individuals approaching him, It's time for him to be asked to stand down, not for individuals to confront him about their own personal problems with him. Simply throwing out Matt 18 allows him to contain this fire by swatting down those who are not strong enough to pursue the matter higher, and thus it has zero effect. If you assume that I haven't spent months agonizing over my course of action here, and that my claims are rash, you are incorrect. You did not respond to my claim that he screamed visciously at his own father, of blessed memory. Why is that? Can you explain that? You have now accused me of sin...it would behoove you to determine if you are indeed correct in your assertion lest you yourself be guilty of exactly what you accuse me of. If I am correct about what lies in this man's heart, I am simply exposing the wolves in the camp and you have just slandered me. Jay Ledbetter, Oswald Garragory, I challenge each of you to search out the same people we searched out to ask them about their experiences with Troy, starting with Jimmy, and then with Ron and Dreama. If at that point you still don't see what so many others see, then by all means google my name/contact me and I will add my account of the situation in detail. I am personally telling you both that this man hurt myself and my family bitterly, and in the future unless you are willing to search for the truth from others who have brought their unheard pain to the leaders of this congregation to hear them for yoursleves, you have absolutely no right to defend this man. Please allow me to recap Jay, I am telling you personally that Troy would not hear my words about the pain he causes, and so now I'm telling a congregational leader (you) that you are now responisble for taking approriate action to prove or disprove my/our claims, considering that you have interjected yourself into the matter, per your own standards regarding Matt 18. Also, you have sinned against me by slandering me, and I expect you to search for the truth diligently in this matter. I have nothing against you Jay and consider you a friend but I'm losing any respect I may have had for you because of your inability to recognize or perhaps care about the great pain people are claiming. The facts on the ground paint a very different picture than your reviews of Troy. I once again call for beit din. May HaShem bring a close to this painful situation soon.

I would have to agree with Brad and Spectre. It is supposed to be Member led but it is far from. Troy is the only leader there. He is angry and mean to people. He acts like they are his sheep. If he doesn't like you, he will personally either avoid you or be rude to your face. He surrounds himself with people that follow him blindly and if anyone disagrees with him, they are removed from notifications about Bay events and made to feel like they are enemies. Troy governs with an iron fist. Any attempts to talk with fellow attendees are met with an accusation of lashan harah. That is his method of control - to isolate. And he likes when people leave quietly. They are never talked about and for him people are replaceable. There are many amazing people at Bay but everything is permeated with Troy as he is in charge of every single ministry there starting from financial department, worship team, events, leading service, meetings, etc. He needs to be removed from ministry completely.

BAY is no longer at the Barnes Rd. address. They are now at this address:

6350 Chippewa Rd, Colorado Springs, CO 80915

(719) 536-9331.

Bay is a wonderful congregation, and I, and many of my friends, attend there as often as we can,



I am not a stranger, nor an infrequent visitor to BAY. I am there once or twice a month, on average. I have been attending BAY for going on three years now. I have also attended some of their other special events outside the congregation.



I have never witnessed the kinds of things that are reported by Brad and one who will only identify himself as "Spectre" (fitting, it seems).



Nor do I believe that people radically change their ways when I show up. I believe what I see there on a regular basis is the truth. And the truth as I see it is nothing at all like what is described by two angry detractors.



In fact, the congregation is quite the opposite of what the critic has reported here. The doctrine is good, the worship divine, and the spirit of love permeates that place. There is nothing at all about BAY that would be properly described as a "cult". In fact, I am confident Yeshua Himself would be quite comfortable there.



Having said that, I want to deal with Brad and "Spectre".



By his own admission, Brad did not take action when he felt that a wrong was being done. But he spends much time writing a "review" which alleges sin, and does so publicly.



That practice violates Scripture. Scripture first requires him to take his perceived wrong privately to the person who he thinks did the sinful act (Mat 18).



Further, failing to comply with Mat 18, and deciding to write a lengthy tome "warning" all about attending here he puts himself in the company of those who spread malice and falsehoods, and who have been turned-over by G-d to a depraved mind (Rom 1). Not such a good place from which to cast stones, I think.



Beyond that, Eph 4:31 declares: "Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. And be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you."



But the Scriptures do not end there, Col 3:8-10 reminds us: "But now you also, put them all aside: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and abusive speech from your mouth. Do not lie to one another, since you laid aside the old self with its evil practices,".



And further, 1 Peter 2:1-4 warns us, "Therefore, putting aside all malice and all guile and hypocrisy and envy and all slander, like newborn babes, long for the pure milk of the word, that by it you may grow in respect to salvation, if you have tasted the kindness of the Lord."



I find the writings of Spectre and Brad to be quite full of those things that Scripture has, in the cited passages above, prohibited to those who are believers. These kinds of things are not merely unwise... they are outright sin.



Brad and Spectre, if you have believed that there is a wrong at BAY, then I urge you to stop the sinful behaviors that seem to recur in these venomous "reviews". Either follow Mat 18, and see it through to the end, or be silent.



I offer my email, if you wish to continue this discussion, or if you want more information about this congregation. [email protected]

If you are looking for a family friendly, Sabbath keeping congregation this is it. Lots of great activities for all ages and sound teaching. Come join us!

Check this place out! It is a an awsome synagogue! The people are amazing, and there are always tons of activities happening! It is a great place to worship G-d and build lasting friendships! The music is great, the teaching is really good, the food is amazing and I love orshiping and fellowshipping at BAY! (Beit Ad-nai Yisrael) I have attended this synagogue for over 4 years it's a great influence on me and my wife. Wouldn't trade it for anything!